How To Build And Scale A Successful Sales Organization ft Morgan Ingram & Thomas Boccard

In this episode, JB Sales Training & SDRDefenders sales legends, Morgan J Ingram & Thomas Boccard, answer how to level up your sales development team.

1. How does mindset play a critical role in rep development?
2. How do you make sure you're building long term value to the company?
3. What incentives and compensation will encourage better collaboration with SDRs and AEs?

Give it a listen and let us know your thoughts! 

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Transcript

Eric Smith aka The Lowly SDR :   0:09
Ayyy What's going on? Everyone. This is the lowly SDR podcast brought to you by abuveground. I am your host. The lowly SDR alongside my new co host in front of the show, Tyler Cole also want to give a shadow to my friend waxy for providing us music for the last episode and night. Larson for blessing us with the music today to find out more about the music or how you get your music on the show. Details will be in the description decided to bring to you today show everyone as we're waiting for Episode three. How to Build a Scale Successful sales organizations with none other Than Morgan Jay Ingram Fellow podcaster LinkedIn influencer crater of str Chronicles Currently working at J Barrel Sales Training s a director of sales, execution and evolution well as none other than our man Thomas hashtag Bono Sales Bo Card, co founder of Amazing Str Defenders. Senior VPs sales at Global Data PLC, the world's leading data and analytics company. To learn more, look up Morgan, Jay Ingram or Thomas broke hard on linked in or in the description below. Wow. Well, that's a mouthful. Introducing those two way wanted to bring on these experts because discussion runs a lot deeper than the conversation Tyler and I had on the last week's episode about the broken str system. So I want to thank to exceptional organizations that allowed us to have a solution based conversation with their leaders. Thank you, Jamie Arrows in str Defenders. Without further ado, let's get into the show. All right, well, welcome, everyone. Tep So

spk_2:   1:47
three of the lowly SCR. First off, I want to say thank you, Tom and Morgan for joining us. Want to give everyone listening in that isn't familiar with YouTube rock stars, A little background and how you two got to where you are today. I'll start off with you. Tom. Can you tell us a little bit about your how you got started in sales and how you ended your current role over I go without appeal, See? And how did that lead your involvement with str defenders and the messaging behind it?

spk_0:   2:13
Ah, yeah, sure. I mean I guess First off, you know Tyler and Eric appreciate you having me on here today. Excited Teoh, be speaking with you regarding topics were going at hand here and obviously with the man, Morgan, So should be a fun one from our end. Um uh, going my my sales career probably will date myself a little bit. Ah, you know, I got into sales. I'd say way back, um, you know, probably slinging, ah, CD subscriptions to my friends with the BMG and Columbia House. So I could ah, get as many free CDs as possible back in the nineties. So, uh, that was brutal. But, ah, you know, I guess, Ah, professionally, myself career. You know, I started off, actually, and b to c selling gym memberships out of college. Um, that lead to me going into, ah, to be to be world on mortgage leads and eventually selling mortgages. So back and B to C. But, um, you know, I had the great timing of doing that in 2006 so that was a short lived rough experience. Um, but it actually it was really good for me, you know, it helped me understand a few things about, you know, myself and kind aware. Ah, you know, I needed to be, um, to succeed in sales, and, you know, it showed me that, you know a guy like him thrived. And B two b sales, Um, you know, particularly in inside sales environment. So it'll having that more competition, learning from each other and kind of assemble infrastructure. So that's that's what I sought after and landed, um, an entry level sales role in a conference company. You gonna rose through the ranks there, you know, moved into management, and that's where I started building it. Ah, bit oven expertise, I guess, in building and scaling, um, you know, sales teams, particularly in startup groups, um, as well as taking over and fixing existing sales teams and that that really caught, I guess Global Data's attention. And, you know, they tapped me to come over, help build out our inside sales teams in New York City, focused on farm and energy. Uh, you know, that was eight years ago, and I'm still here. So it's, uh, been a pretty good ride. Um, you know, in That s, er defenders. I guess that's Ah, a little bit of a different Beth, but ah, no, actually, I connected with Josh. Nikki Nisshin. Kyle. Ah, you know, through the revenue collective and linked in and from our and we all kind of share the same passion to help others. And, ah, division of how to help people that are entering sales, you know, rolls, but not just people entering, but how to help people progress their careers. Um, you know, the initial feedback reactions. It's been awesome so far. You know, we're just a a couple of weeks if that in and, you know, to be candid with you guys and it's kind of caught us all a bit by surprise, just the, you know, the outpour that people have come so

spk_2:   4:59
far. Obviously, that's what kind of drew us to have you on the podcast. That's what you're doing with that zero defenders and your ah, senior vice P over at global data. Correct.

spk_0:   5:10
Yep. Yeah, SPP, um, for the new business sales groups in the Americas oversee of five of our divisions,

spk_2:   5:18
Awesome. And Morgan A. Tyler and I obviously know who you are, as does much of the sales world. But for those living under a rock or navigating linked in with their eyes closed, do you mind? Given our listeners a little context into your time as an SPR and your growth into a sales training role at J. Barrows.

spk_3:   5:36
Yes. So for all the Patrick stars out there living on the ride, eso started off as an SDR. But as everyone probably couldn't talk about, I would I don't know what percentage of this on our Vickers here from from all you guys, what percentage you think. But probably 85% of people that condo sales had did not want to be in sales, probably higher. But at the other day, I didn't want to be in it, so I wanted to be a sport. Jason, I saw Jerry Maguire show me the money. That's why I graduated with finances Force minutes when I was like, you know, it would be a sport changing. Forget all this stuff, but, yeah, that it happened because law school's massively expensive and you're just not gonna do that. So I find myself born and raised here in Atlanta. I was at an event in Atlanta and I was having a conversation, someone about start ups and tank and funding. And there was a company that just gotten funding in the area. And so I realized with that, Okay, I can go reach out to them and maybe see if there's an opportunity there. I've applied for 80 rolls. I got rejected all of them, but I found the SDR was something I could get myself into. So start off as an SDR, was not great at the beginning, learns of skills, got organized, got better over time and then started something called the SCR Chronicles, which still has active today. Don't post the streak in this league as I did, because the goal of the SF Chronicle's was to post my journey as an str to make it relatable to everyone and then got promoted. Str manager and 13 rubs there. I found it on YouTube by John Barros, who I work for today and I've been with him for three years now, teaching reps on top of the photo strategy and prospecting with our program called Filled the Funnel. So that's what I'm all about, and that's my background.

spk_2:   7:22
I appreciate the background and how you guys both came into these influential worlds. I think we have a really good show today with two people whose opinions really matter on this topic. Today we'll be discussing, building and scaling successful sales development organisations with to industry experts Tom and Morgan. So let's dive right into it. Tom, you have this platform. Str defenders. You make a real effort to help coach and develop sales departments. Where do you and str defenders start your efforts to enable growth and build stronger sales departments?

spk_0:   7:53
Yeah. I mean, for me, it's it's really straightforward. You know where you got to start your efforts and that's with your players with your team. With your coaches, right. You gotta build stronger sales departments with stronger sales people. And while you're you're focusing on building the stronger individuals, you know from a skill set standpoint of mindset standpoint, you need to have the leaders and the culture that's going to support this true team effort. It's kind of that, you know, rising tide raises all ships mentality. All right, so that's the our defenders there were trying to build a community that's, you know, outside of just the walls that people are dealing with on the day to day, you know, And it's really trying to bring together, you know, just all people within sales. You know, I guess different layers of experience and rolls, but you know, that focused on driving revenue, you know, really trying to empower them to learn and grow together. And I think our mission is really the spotlight. You know, those those individuals, leaders, organizations and cultures that really support the role of str. Um, and doing this through curated content insights, but also giving that kind of hands on coaching, you know, from bed and mentors to help them achieve their long term career aspirations. I mean, the site itself and kind of the community. It's not really about us. It's more about highlighting those sales professionals and teams, you know, as the valuable assets that they are and the lifeline to organizations. Um, you know, we want toe support them to give him that greater impact, given more tactical aspects of not just kind of like preaching from a pedestal, but actually like, Hey, here's some actionable insights you can taken apply today, right? Um, you know, and for us, I think the first order of business really is just a deliver content, you know, that's gonna help. Support s yours personally and professionally. Um, you know, that could be best practices. Career advice, sales strategies, um, you know, tweaks with pitches or emails that are going out there. Um, but like simultaneously, the main focus from his also, you know, we talk about str is you talk about their development in their career. Pets. Where it starts is the people that are leading them there. There

spk_2:   10:03
are

spk_0:   10:03
coaches. Um, you don't really need to help develop these individuals because for me, you know, and I have spoken about this a lot and post about it, but you know, ultimately we need to cut down on the the To me. It's an appalling industry average of 18 months that it takes for a str to get promoted so that that's really kind of like the underlying thing. Like, how do we short in that cycle? And that helps by giving the DST ours them more tactical, tangible pieces there, but also helping the people that are, you know, managing and coaching them now.

spk_2:   10:32
Yeah, absolutely. And Morgan, as someone who has been a voice for the str community, what are your thoughts on the str system? How do you think it could be improved?

spk_3:   10:43
Well, we're gonna see a lot of changes due to the current climate and so I would say first and foremost, it's not the SD ours, but it's the front line managers because at the end of the day, a rat can come in and be very and be high skill. I will. But if there's no one coaching that person to direct that skill to direct that will, it's gonna be harder for the S started. Progress just was talking, saying So I see what needs to change is there has to be mawr. Str training. There has to be more coaching that has now have to have to be involved in these conversations. And with each industry, it's gonna be different because of some ministries. RSC Ours have been a CR's for 23 years, but it's hard for the transition because the product is too technical, so they end up not getting promoted to a ease, not because of what they can't do. It's because there is no place for them to move to, because the 10 years rep is has 15 years in that space is too technical for them, right? So I think the SCR system, what is going to change? This is what's gonna happen is there will be less inbound reps because at the end of the day, most CEOs and CFOs are gonna be like, OK, we could just invest into a drift or intercom and have that handled the invalids and have fewer people handing inbounds. The outbound str role is gonna be a war 60 j. We're gonna be doing mawr tiered approaches. And because it's gonna be more strategic, that will allow for the promotions to be around. I think the 14 still 18 months because they found for bridge Group when a rep gets promoted and less than 12 months in their tenure, there's a 50% 66% drop. That means that they're gonna get on a roll and just get fired. So they're still has to be that 14 18 months. You still have to be able to execute and learn the role. Because if you can't master prospecting, you won't be able to be good at the next role. And that's gonna be a requirement because mawr mid market and S and B even enterprise a ese will be asked the prospect because what's currently happening right now, most str teams getting laid off and completely dropped off the map because they weren't able toe either progress that system in the right way or they were like, Well, I have all these cells upset or a ease they should be processing. Anyways, let's get rid of these s ers. Let's focus on the prospect. And so now you're gonna have to be someone who could prospect. And so the SDR rule will be more of a spotlight. But in order for it to be more of a spotlight, I believe in the future and not right now. But in the future, coaching has to be on the forefront for our front line managers, and you're gonna have to know practically had a coach to these rap skills. So then they know what to do to be successful.

spk_2:   13:30
Yeah, I think that's a message that we've been trying to communicate is developing these SDRs for the next role. You know, they need to be trained how to be in a e and, you know, have closing techniques and just didn't know the entire sales cycle. But you mentioned something that I wanted to touch on. Do you think the str role is going to get phased out completely like, um, the way you were saying they might transition to it to Ah, you know, more of inbound role. And

spk_3:   14:00
I don't I don't I don't think it's gonna phase out. I've said there was less inbound SD ours. It's gonna be more outbound and cheered. Focus, more lever focus. So they'll be more specialized into industries. And But right now you're going to see 20 to 30% drop off NSC ours. You could go see all the people gonna getting let go. Now you can see all the teams that are going to let go. This is just what's gonna happen. And it's it's sad and it's heartbreaking because I'm talking to all these stars just from the days of me training the constant beginning. This is what I'm seeing. What I'm saying, though, is that there will be more of a specialized focus. You're gonna get more targeted, but they're gonna be these people who are gonna becoming new into the industry because once things come alive again and then everything moves back from an economy standpoint, they're gonna be knew people were gonna coming in learning these str role. However, people are gonna realize that they're gonna have to make sure, every Esther they have counts and not hire two mini, like some organizations have, which is led a lot of for lows. This happened, and a lot of that's gonna be due to reallocation of how veces will CFC our teams and also their sales reps as well. But there's a lot of things that go into that. But I say at the end of the day, there has to be some coaching on the str n not only help them be a East, but to be better professionals, Whether they wouldn't go to customer success, whether they want to go to renew ALS or whatever that is, there's gonna be a more focus on the coaching side of making BS ers period at that prospect in peace. And having a business acumen allows them to go with other position that they want to go inside the organization.

spk_2:   15:30
All right, Yeah, totally agree. So if I'm understanding you correctly, though, we're pretty much all in agreement that the system is a difficult one to succeed in advance in despite that people like yourself that have been killer s t ours for all of us mortal SD ours. What did it take for you specifically to be successful within the current system? And what did that workflow in mindset look like?

spk_3:   15:55
So you said one thing mindset, I said, is a critical piece of this. A big part of the SPR rules, but I always tell people, is the role is simple if you think about it. But it's not easy. It's simple in the fact that your job is scheduled. Meetings. Serious, simple task when you think about it. But it's But as we all know it's not. And that's what makes it not easy is makes it hard because it's you're going into work every single day knowing that you're gonna get rejected, that mental, that mental game, you have to know that. And also it's different from a E, and he wants you to close the deal. You get there, get the gong, you've got a great commission check. You hit the goal at the end of the month as an SCR. It's like cool, that's fantastic Go due to get. And now and now you gotta you gotta face that every single month. You don't get to ring the gong, you don't get prizes, you don't get the free some companies from coming to the president about most you don't. It's just like cool you get you scandals. Great meetings. You got beat up, Go do it again and again And then again and then again, and so before you even get close to what the skills are, you gotta have the mindset that this is going to be something that is any tough. So that was first of from outside to get a mindset right, and then everything else just comes out of the organization. What are you doing every single day? What, your money making activities? How are you prepping for the money making activities? Where you taking those breaks right? Those are key factors. Another thing that I would sell people's ability to adjust Right? Right now, a lot of people are getting let go. Yes, obviously, due to the industries that they target. But it's because they were on that line and now they were just going through the motions and they were on average. Sales are up now. They're not there. It's because they were going to emotions, so you have to be able to adjust. Right now, there's still opportunity out there. There's still people scheduling meetings, but you have to figure out what's the new way of going about it. I've been yelling about video for months now. That's a way to do it. Right now. There's people that I know they're doing direct mail and they're doing really well. They're people who are really good at copyrighting, and they're doing really well right now. But these are things you have to learn to be successful. But it's not just, oh, what was me? It's control what you could control. And ultimately, if any of service will be successful, it's being emotional about your process and not the outcome. And being emotional about the process all focuses on What questions should I be asking? Am I listening to customer success calls that my building my business acumen? Am I seeking feedback from other people that are in the space? Like right now there's so many people posting content, you could get a lot of information and be a really great SCR right now if you executed on that advice. So those are things that helped me be a great str and what anyone could be doing right now to be great as well.

spk_2:   18:41
Yeah, I saw that post other day where you mentioned that That control what you can control. Yeah, I love that. I really do. So I'm sure it can't be easy to stumble across an abandoned truck filled with Morgan's when you're looking to staff your sales development team, Tom, as someone who has helped build and develop sales organizations, are there natural capabilities you look for specifically as an SDR role?

spk_0:   19:07
Yeah. I'm gonna go find one of those trucks. Morgan. Hey. Hanging out? Uh, yeah. I mean, I got before happening that I just think Morgan touched on some great things there where it's like, you know it with the mindset bit, right? Like a lot of And this goes for sales. I mean, this is for top a ese for even BP's SVP's people I work with or no, you know, it's like they state they get so fixated on these elements that are completely outside of their control and derails them, you know, and like, Look, I mean, I'm a sports guy. You look at baseball, right? You're in the Hall of Fame if you're bad. And 3 303 20 you know, And the reality is what you're doing. It's like you could look at it from one way you're you're getting three hits out of every 10 at bats. Your fail in seven out of every 10 at bats, seven out of every 10 at bats. You know, like, and I think having that mindset of lake, But I'm gonna come in there, and it's gonna take me. I don't know, 50 cold, 70 goals, 80 calls, whatever the numbers to generate. Two meetings today, right? Like, you gotta have that thick skin and just focus on. Look, I need to make that many dials to get five conversations, so I'm just gonna control what I do. Like how to get those dials up and organized so that when I get those five conversations, I'm ready, and I'm geared up and I'm fine. And I'm good to go, you know, from my side, I've flipped it sometimes from my team and told him, Let's not focus on how many meetings we booked today. Let's focus on how many knows we get, right. Like, yeah, and not that old. Well, every knows closer to Yes, just like, you know, like Let's just celebrate different things, right? I'd rather celebrate 20 knows than two yeses, right? Like the Excel very, 20 times that I could build off that, but I can learn from those nose. Why were there 20 knows what happened. We could fix it. So I think we're gonna happen into the trades. That that's just something that it can't go Overlooked is that mindset. And what you said Morgan of just, you know, focus on controlling what's within your control.

spk_2:   21:09
Yeah, Morgan mentioned something in that post where he said, you know, be passionate about the process, not the outcome. That really kind of resonated with me as well. I think that's exactly what you're saying right now.

spk_0:   21:19
Yeah, 100%. Um, so, yeah, I mean, I guess if you want to talk about, like, traits and that stuff, um, you know, one thing I would just say

spk_2:   21:26
is no interest. Er it's

spk_0:   21:28
ah. You know, for me, it's everything like this. Is this tunnel traits I look for? This is the top four that ah run through right now. But for me, it's not necessarily natural traits, right? You know, I think you know I'm a process oriented guy, you know? And I had Teoh tohave that, you know, for me to be successful, you know, are, you know, have some some wins in my career. Um, you know, some of these traits They may have been like natural instincts for me, but I can't just like reaching toe. You know, the magic had to be let go. I'm gonna be competitive today. Like it's like, I'm gonna build a process so that I am competitive in the right aspects on a day in day out basis. So I do think you know what I'm gonna go through. Some of them are natural for some people. It's really taking process approach to it. So you doing it? And for me, I mean the trades. It's really I'm looking a goal oriented humility, competitiveness. Ah, and curiosity. Right. So goal oriented, Pretty straightforward, right? Set, gold stretch goals fixate on achieving them. And when you inspecting your progress every day, it's It's where my at versus achieving those goals. What have I done there, right, if I'm looking at Ah, humility, right? Like we're in sales. We gotta be confident where the you know, the cocks of the walk or whatever you want to call her, right? Like we're out there peacock in. But like you need to be, you know, humble in the aspect that, like I'm open to being learned, I'm open to learning and being coached, right? You know, for me, stagnation is it's the equivalent of death, right? So I'm always looking to grow and learn, and that could be from anyone out there. Um, competitiveness is this isn't cut throat. This isn't the eighties boiler room anymore, right? Or Wall Street? Right, You know, but But you must have ah, lack of discouragement. You have a constant positive mindset, Teoh. You know what you're touching on Morgan? Um, that that will lead to success in the last one's curiosity. You know, it's that natural inquisitiveness. Um, this builds on the desire to learn, but it's also it's with your customers. You know, selling isn't telling. You need to want to learn about your customers. You want to, um, you understand their businesses their day to day, the challenges or everything that's involved in that. Um And I'm not just talking discovery questions I'm talking about, like legitimately having a desire to understand what the do you know, listening to understand this. Opposed, I guess respond. Right now I'm working on a solution together. But you need those bits. And that's what I look for, You know, for any candidate admiring whether it's ah, you known Str ah vp.

spk_2:   23:52
Yeah, and I think this like I think what you said about this could apply to anyone in sales role, I think is important. We're not speaking specifically best yards. Um, you know, you could take its and parts of this and apply toe. You know, any role you are in sales, but I like the part about curiosity. I think that kind of ties back into what we're saying about transitioning into the next role as an e. You know, if you're curious and you kind of want to understand the process and just learn more, Um, I think that's always gonna help you and the next rule. But I think we're gonna take a little break right now. And then when we come back, I'm gonna pass it off to my co host, Tyler, and he's gonna walk you guys through more of a

Eric Smith aka The Lowly SDR :   24:33
solution based conversation. This'll episode is brought to you by above ground and str defenders. If you'd like to learn more about how we can help you produce content, are interested in sponsoring a show, please visit above ground dot com or email above ground at gmail dot com. That is a B U v g r o u and d at gmail dot com. You like to learn more about star defenders and how they can help you build a successful sales organization are looking for the tourism resource is needed to exceed in your current role is the str defenders dot com or follow str defenders on Linked in. I also want to take this time to thank everyone for the support from the 1st 2 episodes that matter. People reaching out to us to tell us that they enjoyed the show or interesting and being a guest on the podcast has been incredible. Please keep the feedback coming and connect with us on Lincoln so we can hear from you what topics you feel are affecting str and sales community and who you'd like to see Tyler and I discuss those topics with, and now it's past back to Tyler to continue the conversation.

spk_2:   25:50
Yes, I appreciate you kicking us off, Eric. It's ah, it's great to get some background in terms of Like what, Time and Morgan and brought to the various departments they've worked for. I think our listeners air pretty interested in How do we change this, though? Like, overall, I think it comes down to the system itself being broken. So how do we actually motivate people to behave in these ways? Whether that be the compensation metrics training eso Let me start off with you, Morgan. Um, you know, we discussed some of what it takes individually to succeed. But if you found yourself, like managing and building a sales development seem right now like, how's that breakdown? Like, what? Are met water metrics like, how are you measuring your reps and how are you compensating them?

spk_3:   26:32
It depends on the direction of where we're going as a company. Because when you're brought on as leader, you can have your mindset of where you want your team to go. But that's all driven by board and executive t at the end of the day. So whatever they want to go do is you have to align that. So what? I'm comping What I'm measuring is all predicated on what are we driving towards? Are we trying to get Maurin this vertical? Are we moving? Are we trying to 40% year over year growth? Is it 100% year over year growth? So all those numbers are going to reverse engineer predicated to how I have been running the team. If I didn't let's say I don't know any of that stuff. I think by baseline, most str teams air comped on meetings completed and making sure that they're qualified for the account executive to move forward in the sale cycle. What I'm also looking at is baseline metrics of cold call conversions. Are we doing social activities? Wherever my buyer lives, it doesn't have to be linked. Did right? They could be on Pinterest or take talk. I don't know. I'm targeting so they could be there, Right? So also as well I'm gonna look at what are my email conversions and how are running campaigns. And then also, how fast is my team growing? Right? So all these things are what everything about as they come in a leader at the baseline, though what I should what we should be focused on is I would make my str team listen to our customer success call every other week. I believe that's a huge miss in all organizations that the s years don't know why they're targeting personas. And they don't even know why the product is relevant to the buyers. Mostly scr just know. Here's our script. Here's our emails. You got a special Exxon A meetings get after it and then when they get promoted, they're not able to do a true discovery because they didn't know those things. And so to diagnose that as a leader, Kevin Dorsey says this a lot is I'm gonna coach the reps to become better, sells a fresh ALS, but also to coach them to be better people. And so there's gonna be a lot of things that involvements that which is we're going to coaching on Coke, already coaching on how to make videos we're going to we're gonna do meditation. We're gonna do gratefulness because these are things that I personally myself to see success so we could instill that into a team and they could grow and build off that then they will be of successful as well, because the more that they can understand about psychology and human nature and the mindset of what it takes to be great aunts to see success, then return that will go across the entire team and lead to success. So I would be doing tons of coaching tons of training I do. Bringing in external resource is four hour for an hour, talk like I didn't with my for you seen and I would be making sure that we're always doing something to grow ourselves because most teams are in managed mode. We would be in coaching and training mode and making sure we could proactively grow and move forward as much as we can. So that would be. My focus is I was coming in and a self development team and I would make sure that my self development team grows is a family. And it isn't just an assortment of individuals that are just there to hit a goal.

spk_2:   29:56
Yeah, absolutely. I think you brought up an interesting point that I've seen is like a foundational problem with some sales organizations like you mentioned meetings booked but quality side on. I think there's been a lot of ways, never an incentive placed on that, like we're literally scheduling meetings and we're compensating people based on whether they're completed or not. So I think this leads to this gap in development because I'm chasing getting the beating the easiest way possible. And then I'm passing it over to you know, somebody in like a Tom's department who's trying to close that, and they're like, What is this opportunity that I passed over? So I definitely agree with everything you said there, but I think there's still this layer that we kind of need to poke out of. How do we solve that problem? Is there a way to kind of incentivize people to schedule quality meetings since you be invested in the deal's themselves? Those of engagement? But

spk_3:   30:47
there has to be ruled. There has to be a grasp. Your rules of engagement. Now that that's the problem, is that they're just It's too grey area. It's like an eighties like Well, I only want talked to an executive so disqualified first day he was like, I'll talk to the garbage man just to get into the cow, right? And those air, like the two levels of a e that you have And so you can't just be like, Yeah, good luck. You gotta have what we created. The rules of engagement. When you schedule a meeting, it has to hit this criteria. It fits this criteria 80. I don't want to hear you complaining like this is the rules of engagement. Str I don't want to hear you complaining either because you didn't follow the rules of engagement. So that way, there's no way anyone could complain about it. And this is what we all agreed with, of course. The str eight In a leadership team, that's where people see successes. They have a rules of engagement if you don't have a rules of engagement or are we? That's where that grey area Tyler constant play

spk_2:   31:37
did. Absolutely definitely

spk_0:   31:40
Morgan, I think. Would that start? Just jump in here quick. That and like that? That's a key element you know they have in their rules of engagement, but it's also it's like, you know, if I'm in, str and I book a meeting. Let's say it's in two days and I just book a meeting like right? Like I said, Okay, Morgan, I want to talk to you about ABC that we could help you with. And you're like, Yeah, whatever I'll get Get me off the phone book the media, talk to you End of the week. But then, like the sales development, rap str beatty or whatever you wanna call him, right, they can continue on that conversation. Extend that conversation like you don't need to keep him on the phone so they're ready to hang up. But, like, you know, followed with an email. Hey, looking forward to speaking. Let's make sure we were touched on the right points to a little bit of discovery there. Call him back. Hey, my director or a e? Every position they're excited to speak to. You want to make sure it's the best you start like building more focus on instead of, like, meetings booked. Focus on SQL, right? Like sales qualified leads, Sure, and I I think for me it's like you know, in part of this where we talk about, like, the transition phase, the timeline, it takes us two yards to go to ease. Um, you know, we just stay too long and only focused in on, like the research in the outreach where It's like, What about the engagement? You know, how do we do? We actually qualify leads, you know, how do you do these discovery conversations? And it's not like there's my five minute discovery block. It's gonna be over multipronged over multiple conversations to the process. And I think some of that will help, you know, tying. And that should be a part of the Are we right? Like so you have, like, you know, Hey, they got a track A B and C title. Maybe is questionable if that plays into that.

spk_3:   33:18
Yeah, yeah, And at the biggest thing as well. To add to that is EST ers Mindsets are taught to be transactional instead of that engaging part that you talked about and not like. And the interesting thing is, when you talk to most FDR's, they're like, Why did my meeting gets disqualified? I had hit quote etcetera, didn't know when they become a ease their like they see the light like, Oh, wow. I realized that all those opportunities I was sitting over were straight trash, and I understand, like why everyone was mad at me. And the thing is that the biggest pieces of great advice that I got is as in str pick and 80 that you like and sit through your call that you schedule all the way to the clothes.

spk_0:   34:04
Yeah, that's so that was one thing I was gonna relax you talked about. They should be on calls with renewals, right? Or like existing clients understand that which absolutely right. But I'm a proponent of, you know, I like the ones 11 to 2 str t'ee ratio. So you're teamed up with this person and like, literally like I, you know, Look, let's zoom. Their main objective is the book qualified meetings like you got to hit that that metric that KP I. You know, because if you show you consistently do that, then you start talking about how do we move to the next role? How do we grow? But, ah, you could have a portion of those where it's like a 50% of these. You're on with that a every day, and they could hear straight of the bat where it's like shit. I did not qualify this lead exactly. Like, you know, in normal circumstances, if we're back in an office, they got a look at that person. And like I got there like I got it's funny cause you see semester ers on my floor like, Oh, yeah. I can't join you on that coal. I got, uh, got a thing. I gotta go take a walk through. This is

spk_3:   35:13
allergic because also as well, most SD ours. If your sale cycle is over 60 days, you think you think the handoff is over? The deal should close immediately. That office fire you should have closed that. And it's like, Okay, sit on the calls and like see it like my E attacked me on this email thread. It was 187 emails going back and forth with the executive team. And he was like, I'm keeping you on this thread and I want to show you how much work goes into closing this deal. It's not like you hand it off. I have one call. Everyone loves it in the clothes is that their work was work that goes into it. So there has to be that mutual respect between the E and the str both sides.

spk_0:   35:56
I think that's key, though to mutual respect. You know that he's gotta understand like it's not like, you know, Hey, this person just here to feed me like, yeah, that is their job responsibility. But you're there to support them and make sure that they are giving you those qualified leads. If they're giving you leads that aren't don't meet the mustard. Whatever you wanna call right, then coach them. Help them, you know, explain why and why That's an issue. And then how you confined fill in those blanks so that next time it is qualified leads Yeah, because I mean my system that I I operate in from our in from a comp side for us two years, we give bonuses for deals that convert. So if I'm in str and the ones that I talked to on a daily basis, I'm like, you need to understand that what's going to give me the highest opportunity to be having multiple deals close every month. So I'm making some decent commission while I'm learning and growing, developing. And it's not like I'm just gonna throw a bunch of shit against the wall and hope something sticks. That's sorry. I don't know if we should be cursing on you. I think that's to now. Uh, but, uh, you know what I mean? Like, because there are some And like you said, I gotta ease that are like, I'll talk to the garbage man, the janitor. I don't care who it is. Anybody s o I

spk_3:   37:10
my my homey back, Mike. You talked to anybody else

spk_0:   37:13
like oh, dear a I mean and like, you know, I don't blame, you know, they have an interesting approach to beach heading. It's like, but it's, you know, you could find that a lot of info from that person. Then you can use it. You go back to the issue would be like Like, that was not a qualify lead. But I found that all this info. So we're gonna keep it qualified. Now go in and find that next. Now go find these people based off that intel we got. And that's why I think that one's one ratio of 1 to 2. It builds a team effort for which that helps, you know, definitely curtail the duration for development from STRS perspective. That's what you know, helped and that that's why I emphasized, like I think 18 months is too long. I'm not in a super super technical space. Yep. Here, You know, So that that's that should be qualified or clarified. Right? Um but I haven't working hand in. And so, like, you know, they should be seen. They should be on multiple demos throughout the entire sales process with them being coached and learning about the whole way. Um, you know, it comes second. You gotta show you can do the first bit first, because again, when they move into that a year old they don't have str is their full cycle. So you need to maintain that stuff. But But if you're working, hand in and then you can really learn all the different tactics, All the trips, tricks start building. Ah, Library of resource is of rebuttal. Emails prefer checking emails, whatever it might be. So I don't know. I think I think there's a lot of that that comes in, um, coming back to the original. But I think you nailed it where they need to be on with calls of existing clients because you're gonna be effective on booking meetings. You gotta know what you're booking them for. How do you help the prospects specifically like, Why the hell do people buy your product? Why do they keep using your product and keep coming back? Why do you have a job? Yeah,

spk_2:   39:01
Yeah, I think it's beneficial to everyone involved To like just to have a good relationship between A e's and S's ers. I don't see the downside of it. I think it brings us to this, like issue like this delicate balance, though, of like, uh, approach versus output. Like I think we can all agree. Like messaging concepts important personalization is important. I would love to have the time to sit in like that set calls on Dong or something that my ease air doing as a as an str But a lot of times Ah, the way people are set up there not given that ah leeway, like they're not given the opportunity to develop like they're held to a certain level of metrics. And they're discard a ble because of their salary that the first people that go as you mentioned like so many str zehr getting laid off right now. So how do you as a leader bridge that gap of helping someone develop and become like a closer and a more valuable assets your company, but getting them through this initial pain of just learning how to do the job. Send enough email set enough meetings per day, like, uh, about you. Morgan, what do you think on that?

spk_3:   40:05
That's a great question. I think the key thing is, if you're trying to get them, learn how to be better at discovery is getting that str a bank of questions they can ask that doesnt lead until what Tom was talking about. Any cool is connected, then is over the swished. At the end of the day, what has to be is what questions can you ask Once they agreed to the meeting. And so, for example, what we had our ups too, is one someone like Yep, I want a meeting. They've agreed there doesn't has never been a chance for someone agrees with me, and they're like no news. So they agree. So when that happens, you can play a role row click before we hand you off here, I'm gonna ask you a couple questions so that I can get those answers so that this net the call that we're gonna send you on is going to impact it Can I ask those questions quick? Cool. And then now you have those Bank of Qualification questions you can ask from NFC are standpoint. And now again, that could get you better toe look truly understand what those people care about and get the right answers to head off the so that helps you to still have the right quality approach and at the same time qualify What? Also, I would do as well as you mentioned volume. You still got to send out a lot of emails. Do calls take the time to talk to the leadership team and figure out what are the problems that we're currently solving in this climate, that we cannot create messaging off because the current problems that the prospects are dealing with right now are different than they were to be getting this year. So now you take those problems, you can create messaging at scale that's relevant to them. And then now you're able to schedule more meetings and have more interactions. And so if Idol is leading a team right now, Messi ours. Those are two things that would be doing right now to get everyone to level up and get them to the next role. And then my other suggestion would have been I talked about being as an SDR getting on the eighties calls right now, but we already talked about why that's important. And then if you have a chance, even if even if you don't have a wonder wonder wonder to I didn't we didn't have 1 to 1122 I just picked to ease I want to work with I love you said, Hey, here are a list of accounts out I want to go after I felt like based on your book of business, this will be helpful for you. Do you want to work on this with me? The fact that I even found a list of accounts and had the research ahead of time it's gonna stand out to in a eat. They're like, Yeah, cool, Let's work together. And then we took the time to work together. And then what happened is I help them schedule meetings so they could close. But also they gave me advice on how to be good A e moving forward. I didn't move into any role. I went to necessary manager role, but the whole thing is out. That transition to an eight year old would've been a lot easier because they were giving me advice. Because I took the time to just be like, this is the book of business that I think that could help. Can you help me navigate this? I don't know what 80 would be like. Let's have a conversation about that Senior ee all the way down to the US 80 starter. They're gonna be open for that conversation.

spk_2:   43:19
Yeah, I would be pumped if

spk_3:   43:20
I If I can't use like here, tell her I found 25 accounts we could go into. I did the research here. You would help me What you're gonna be like, Yeah, And it has any Esther ever done that for you?

spk_2:   43:32
No. Yeah.

spk_3:   43:33
I don't know why. I really don't understand why NSR wouldn't do that. You're gonna get so much credibility and the organization by just taking the time to do that. That takes a weekend to do. I'm again. I'm shocked. Nose done that? Yeah,

spk_0:   43:49
that's the mindset, though, to that. You're talking about it. It's not not just on the DST ours. I think it's that stigma that it's Ah, you said just you know, your junior role, your entry level role, Um, which it is in most cases. But there's still it's a high value role and, like take that accountability and be proactive, like you're saying, like, you know, you want to be in a pick out the best ones and figure out a way to connect with them. What's a better way than Hey, I found these 25. You know, he's the Should I date myself? The Glengarry leads, right? Like I found this thing. If I'm in a year, can be like, All right, come, come under a young buck. Let's go. I'm gonna teach you the way I'm gonna Let's go find 25 more of these. You're my guy. I don't care if it's ah, you know what the pool is of that stuff like, yeah, it's just taking that initiative. That's what I did. And that's what that's we get there. And that's what that's what separates you. That's why you're successful, you know, and like, there's some people out there, but I think I think a lot of people, they just think like here I am entry role. I can't. I just got it. I got it. Listen and do what they tell me. It's like, get creative. You know, be proactive. That will stand out, and that will lead to your success, and you just pick it up. I mean, like those conversations you got, Morgan, that's what made you successful. Is a manager. Yeah, understanding what a ease air looking for why that's important when you're in that role allows you to coach SD ours to be more effective, get more qualified leads. It's it all ties together? Absolutely.

spk_2:   45:21
Yeah, I think as you have the opportunity, Teoh, you know, be successful in those roles to take, um, the people that are able to get that buying from other people. I think it's like the persistence and work ethic we can get those traits like those air hard to come by alone. But then how do I make ah, a CEO or CFO or whoever I'm out reaching, like, actually believe that I have something valuable to say is like a nasty are, And I think that's like a big gap that ah people find themselves with, especially when they're in roles for such a short period of time. Where? Why do I want to invest in a personal brand? Why do I want to get to know everybody in the ucas space or in marketing? I'm probably re doing something else in six months. So how do you, Tom, feel like as a leader in terms of like, leveraging, like personal brand creation, like lengthen? Is that something that you're encouraging people on that entry level rolls to take advantage of,

spk_0:   46:14
Uh, 100%. I mean, you know, from my side, it's, ah, you know, everyone should be developing their brand. And the reality is that you know, whether they are being proactive or not, they are developing the brand, you know, being Ah, Creeper Arlington, right? Who's sending those generic in meals or in males or messages? That's a brand. It's a week. Friends, family, Still a bread. Yeah, um, so, like, I mean from I say, it's like so my team is kind of it's a good example of this, right? Like where were very, you know, vertical specific. So, you know, I have folks that are focusing on pharma, others that folks on oil and gas construction, etcetera, and and we're training them up right now on building communities within the there. I see peace at the target companies that they're going after, you know, beyond just the target company. So build that network within that sector. Um, and, you know, a Maybe you won't be moving to another sector, but it's really just it's all about the process, right? Like so if you build it within an oil and gas bit where you're connecting to all these people, you're joining active groups. Um, you know, then in addition to that, you're what we're doing is we're training them, then had a leverage like their posts into conversations via comments that their their prospects are doing right or how to post effectively a few times a week and that that long game will eventually create inbound leads for them. That that is transferrable skills, two different target audiences and that stuff. And and you'll also start to learn that maybe you'll have a niche in the sector. So it's never waste to build communities within, you know, certain markets. I think personally, um, should be geared towards you. You're selling to I mean, we have a rap in London. Um, you know, who is absolutely been killing it off. This process we modeled our training on for what he's done because he hit it actually exceeded his quota in Q one, literally from Leeds that he generated from LinkedIn. That's just like inbound people coming to him off a post conversations, comments, etcetera. Um, you know, there are a why is obvious. It's such a, you know, you got to play the long game. It's that passive approach to, you know, drip feeding leads and building that stuff out there. But those skill sets could be transferrable. So for me, it's, you know, you you're missing a huge chunk of opportunity. If you're excluding it because you're thinking that well, in six months or 12 months, I might be in a different selling into a different market. You know, the today you're not so focused on today and tomorrow. Build that out and then just, you know, if you'd end up to changing that, you could to bring those that process to the different, different community. I think it's it's more paramount than ever to be out

spk_2:   48:58
there people I love that answer to, and it's not like you. Morgan wanted Gettinto some other field that people wouldn't know who he was or that he couldn't sell himself in that industry. Like once. You got to create that, uh, like, personal net worth. Like, people are gonna follow that and be attracted to that regardless of like what? You want a seller If you even wanna sell whatever you want to do with your career, Um, I could probably talk about this stuff all day, but I wanted Teoh and on something that I think it really helped unearth listeners. Uh, ideally, we find a way that kind of restructure the system, things that we've talked about today about these deficiencies. But as we all know, that's an investment in both time and hope. Eso with where things sit. Currently, Morgan, who do you think needs to lead the charge to promote growth for the individual wrapped like? Is this thought leaders down? Is it individual organizations like, how do we actually make a difference there?

spk_3:   49:51
Eat the growth for individual contributor. In what way?

spk_2:   49:57
Like I guess I'm saying, like, the system is what it is, You know, if I managers run his department that way forever, and there's a bunch of problems with how he's run his department. Like I'm not gonna get that advice and that opportunity on my own. So who who can help, like, who can sort of have an impact in this, uh, broken system?

spk_3:   50:18
Think the only person that can impact it is yourself does I mean, I could be like, Hey, this person could do it. This enablement can do it for my managers. Canoe executives conduce Oh, it it's up to you. They're When I first started, I was It s str There was no str creating content, so I could have just complained in men like All right, there's no store credit content. So what was meat? But I was like, No, I'm just gonna do it. I will figure it out. So my father process at the end of the day is how do you fix it yourself? There's so much constantly, Dennis. Ridiculous. You could create a playbook. You could create a cells development and sales playbook. If you took the time and comb through everybody's content, you could create a playbook yourself and go execute it and probably seems to really great results if you did it. So this really ultimately falls on your son because what this was gonna happen is when you decide to invest into yourself, people see the investment you put into yourself. They're going to see the results you get. And another people are gonna ask you what you do. Like I just invested into myself. And then other people start doing the same thing. So it starts with yourself. So then you could show other people what to do, and that should create the dump

spk_2:   51:32
in effect. Yeah, absolutely. And I thought I think you brought up a great point in terms of, like, find the concept, like, create the concept. Like, that's part of I think what you're doing with, like, your community zoom sessions on Friday. Like, what do you guys actually hearing right now? Like, what are the objections? How did you succeed here? Um, started is just, like, kind of a general conversation, but people are getting meetings out of it. People are learning new things every week. So, uh, and that's that's a big reason why I wanted to have both you and Tom on today, because I think that you're both doing different things. Say you don't have the answer like none of us have the answer. But like, we can figure it out if we get enough people that care about it together to talk about it. So, Tom, in terms of ah, like your opinion on this I know str defenders is is highlighting some of these deficiencies. So who exactly is your audience on that platform? Um and how do you have the greatest impact? Is it just like content driven? Is this for the individual contributors and more designed for ah, like the leaders of these organizations? Like, what do you think about that?

spk_0:   52:36
Yeah. I mean, I think you know, the you talk about str defenders are already answered. The people that, you know, Morgan just describe the ones that are out there trying not waiting for people toe to show them the way they're trying to find that out themselves. They're being proactive from that end. Um, I mean for Marsa, you know, we want to support all levels of revenue contributors out there. Um, you know, some from SD ours, you know, all the way up, but it But it's really emphasizing that str kind of junior sales rules. Um you know, helping them kind of like Roman learned again, like, because I don't think they're getting it all internally because it s your role is still fairly new. It a lot of companies. It's definitely knew in a lot of industries and therefore kind of the managers. The coaches of those rules, you know, are not always experienced right now. And I think that's that's really where you know, from my one of my main. I guess mission statements and goals of str defenders is really to help that. You know, line level managers invest ers, you know, to to really level up those teams to help them, you know, given the right product, they're selling and sales cycles in that bit to help shorten that that, you know, duration from it takes from going from str to it to in a or account manager reclines success. You know, it's it's really helping them get those skill sets and do some of the points that Morgan mentioned earlier, right, like that's just helping them like, Hey, this is how to lead research or how to, you know, do opening calls or make videos. But this is like the mindset stuff, the psychology, the meditation, the gratefulness like you know, really? Yeah. To quote Morgan, quoting KD right, it's the to make it better people. And you know, I think that's what managers, though this str managers you because a lot of them are newly anointed. That's the first leadership role. It's like, look, man like, yeah, metrics matter, but it it's weak management. If you're relying strictly on, just make get higher volume, right, let's look for quality and quantity. We can have both. And so I think that's really what I want to, you know, try to drive us, really support that role, because again that will support the people underneath. So it's kind of give the skill sets from both outside's. Um, that's one of things really driving forward with that's your defense, that it is, you know, content driven for sure. Um, you know, we're curating from people out there. We're adding our stuff in, um, trying to make it is interactive and make it fun along the way too. So it's, you know, here is ah, dedicated resource for people to go check

spk_2:   55:10
out. Yeah, absolutely so on. And I think one of the most interesting things about that. S t r O is like it's that's both challenging and rewarding is it's constantly evolving, like whoever is your leader for that department, like linked in videos weren't even around when they were crossed by things like that. Wasn't a strategy that they use, like strategies pivot on almost like monthly basis. Especially, would like the new things that are going on right now. Eso really appreciate both of you joining us. Giving us an opportunity to talk about what you're seeing on your side would love to give our listeners an opportunity. Teoh connect with you guys. Is there any

Eric Smith aka The Lowly SDR :   55:49
where we can find you specifically down? And then I'll go with Morgan? Yeah. I mean, the best bet is, uh, through Lincoln. Just follow you. Follow me on there, or look, at best, they are defenders. Um, you'll find more Morgan. What about you working people find you linked in just morning January. Super simple on, then to

spk_3:   56:13
see You know what we're

Eric Smith aka The Lowly SDR :   56:13
doing? Number J bureaus. So we're dropping stuff all the time, So that's absolutely Morgan was my sales trainer over down to second. Definitely vouch for the J. Barrows tranq appreciate you guys joining us. It's awesome conversation. Look forward, Teoh. Hearing more from you in the future. Thanks, guys. Yeah, thanks. So takes market.